DBF ep006 - Magdalena Bonnelly

3 Fast and Easy Ways to Get the Highest ROI and Crush Analysis Paralysis

When looking at your numbers are you asking what does all of this mean? Do you have a constant irritation that makes you short-tempered? In this episode, we talk to an owner who is questioning her marketing strategy because she doesn’t know how to measure its success and she is quick to share her real problem which is fear of losing it all. We will talk about the most important measurements and how to eradicate the underlying fears that are keeping owners up at night. (Special Guest: Magdalena Bonnelly)

The 4 Most Important Priorities For Owners To Focus On Every Day: https://dontbefooledpodcast.com/daily4focus/

Special Guest: Magdalena Bonnelly, CEO and Founder – https://www.event-strategies.com

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Amy (00:00):
We are living in this digital era. Shane were the most influential force for engaging with prospects and increasing brand awareness is social media.

Shane (00:10):
Here’s the thing I was, I was chasing popularity and didn’t even know it. I thought I was chasing profitability. So the difference is very distinguishable, but if you don’t know the difference, you can fool yourself.

Amy (00:25):
Hi, this is the don’t be fooled podcast. The podcast dedicated to helping you answer the question, why are those people killing it online? And I’m not. I am Amy Harrell with Shane McKenzie and we believe that it is unacceptable to scale without technology that is deliberately targeted and measured. Now each week on the don’t be fooled podcast, we will bust the business myths that are killing your profits. Even if you have tried everything and failed each week, we

Shane (00:57):
We are joined right here by real owners asking real questions about marketing product delivery methods, automation, measurements, and, and of course, how to help more people and get more discretionary time. And it just a moment you’re going to hear from Magdalena Bonnelly during a live consulting call, where we discuss the magic of measuring the time efficiency KPI, we learn that rewards that brings, and we discover how to crush the entrepreneurial fear trap. Here’s what we’re going to do. We’re going to unpack the three most valuable KPIs that Magdalena needs to focus on so that she can get the fastest and highest ROI. And then we’re going to detail out three ways to eradicate fear right now. But first let’s hear from our sponsor of today’s episode.

Amy (01:50):
Are you the director of marketing and communications? Maybe you’re the VP of marketing. Maybe it is your job to ensure that every event is maximized and leveraged for a real return on investment, or maybe you’re just wanting to make a legit impact with really good attendance. Well, Magdalena bodily and her company event strategies is here to help you do just that she helps design virtual and hybrid meetings with effective engagement strategies to maximize real ROI.\

If this sounds like what you’re looking for, then you will want to check her out event-strategies.com.

Shane, can you, and I just set it straight, man. Business is hard.

Shane (02:45):
Yeah. Yes. Business’s hard. Don’t let anybody tell you otherwise they’re lying, right?

Amy (02:50):
I mean, you and I talk about this almost every single week in some capacity that like there is no easy street.

Shane (02:59):
If you’re looking for easy street, you’re never going to find it, right. It’s not there doesn’t exist. Address unknown. I’m telling you.

Amy (03:06):
Exactly in business really is not for the faint of heart. I mean, the truth is there are business strategies and tools that will get us higher returns than others, but it doesn’t make it easier. It’s still hard. And so it’s really, really important that we stop believing this narrative, that there is an easier way to create this true wealth, which is actually discretionary time. I mean, wealthy people have something that rich people don’t have, and that is time and money. Two very important things. And we are living in this digital era. Shane were the most influential force for engaging with prospects and increasing brand awareness is social media. I mean, you and I talk about this all the time that things like engagements or likes or comments, they do not pay the bills. You can be comparing yourself to someone that has a massive following and they make less money than you do.

Amy (04:08):
This is just the truth of the, uh, of the world that we’re living in, but proven strategy and conversions from those engagements on social media will bring you paying customers. And that’s what pays the bills. Now you and I, you know, we’re kind of conflicted about this guy, but he, he is a great case study in, in business. And, and he just is, is he’s honest. And this is one thing that you and I have always appreciated about him, but, um, Gary Vaynerchuk, right? He’s a serial entrepreneur and he understands the value of online sales today. So he understands that content put out on social media cannot be in the company’s best interest, but it has to be in the best interest of the person reading it. So he’s known as Gary V and he did not start by advertising or using multiple social media channels.

Amy (05:07):
He started with only two. He says, Shane, this is what he said. Look at the facts. It’s hard to do almost everything in business. It’s hard to find a good campaign. It’s hard to find good employees. It’s hard to follow the numbers. However, he says, if you put out good content on the most valuable platforms, you will attract an audience because the algorithm drives attention to you for free. Now, Shane, you, and I know this to be very true now, how did he know this? Well, this is what he did. He started with one platform. He measured it and he proved it.
He got a very strong proof of concept that the content he was putting out there, people were finding so much value and that he could put out a call to action and they would convert to a paying client. Now shame you.

Amy (06:06):
And I just recently became acquainted with Magdalena Bonnelly. And she came to us through LinkedIn. Now she saw a piece of content that I had put out there. And the interesting thing about Magdalena is that she saw that content and she came into a conversation and Magdalena shared with me and she’s, uh, you know, said, please share it with, with Shane and, and anyone else that will listen. But really, you know, Magdalena came to her own business really out of, out of, um, need, not want her husband had lost his job in 2019. And then she lost her job. One month later. Now she put out resumes. She did the hard work of trying to, to replace that income. But what she found was after evaluating her skillset is that she could help a lot of people doing what she knew to do best, which was per cure. These events, strategies for marketing and sales positions that had to go and make events profitable. Her mottoes is that any event is as successful as the vendors who are involved in executing it. And she found that a lot of them just did not know how to convert these events into a real ROI. Well, she, uh, said yes to me when I asked her if I could use her live consulting call. And in this particular portion of the call, she’s questioning the proven strategy of one platform at a time.

Amy (08:10):
There are one of two owners in this world, right? There’s only two types of owners in the world. There’s profitable owners and there’s popular owners. And this is all very hard thing to distinguish, right? Shane, I talk about this a lot. You and I unpack it a lot. The difference between profitable and popular.

Shane (08:31):
Yeah, and here’s the thing. I was, I was chasing popularity and didn’t even know it. I thought I was chasing profitability. So the difference is very distinguishable, but if you don’t know the difference, you can fool yourself.

Amy (08:44):
Well, ultimately what Magdalena was doing, right? She was watching these influencers in our industry and she had decided that LinkedIn was the platform for her service because she was listening to these explicit procedural teachers talk about making six figures on LinkedIn. But what she did not hear was the length of time and the amount of work that these influencers went, had to go to, to make that kind of money through LinkedIn. And the reality is, is that when you know, a set of numbers, so there is a difference between good companies and great companies and the great companies follow one to six numbers. Okay. There’s, there’s only one to six KPIs, those key performance indicators that really matter. And the reality is, is that one of these very valuable key performance indicators is the labor cost or time efficiency. You see, we look at it in terms of really hardly ever let me put it that way.

Amy (09:51):
Most owners don’t ever consider labor costs. And so once we start to look at that, we can actually see, how long does it take to get this return on investment? And is it the highest value? Something like LinkedIn is not the highest value it is valuable and where to use it is of wildly important, but get relying on it solely is not the way to go according to the labor cost or the time efficiency, key performance indicator.
And this is the reason that most people leave their corporate job is because they want to start a business that they don’t have to work a gazillion hours a week. Well, if you understand this key performance indicator of this labor cost, you would know that LinkedIn is a time bandit, right? Shane.

Shane (10:45):
It is. Yes, it is. I know from experience, it is so let’s, uh, let’s talk about company drag, right? Just for a second. So I see where the Harvard business review says that their research showed that small business owners lose 40% of their productivity on more than one day a week. Now think about that. That is a, that is a lot of wasted time. So as I looked at the study, the first question that came to my mind was why, right? Rightly well, the study goes on to say it’s because they don’t know where to focus. They’re all over the board. And I think that is a direct result of not measuring productivity. So I thought it was also fascinating Amy, because the article went on to say that people have these huge amounts of discretionary energy. Oh, I love that phrase, discretionary energy, man.

Shane (11:36):
It’s strong. So, and, and it’s that energy that could be devoted to their work, but so many people are not sufficiently inspired to actually direct that energy in a way that produces results. So inspiration is defined by Webster’s as the process of being mentally stimulated to do or feel something, especially something to do creatively. Right? And for me, that kind of mental stimulation that led me to be more creative in my own business came when I could see the impact that I was having. So the, imagine it like this, right? The site for me to see my value came from a set of metrics that you gave me Amy. And before I had those metrics, my emotions were dictating my value. So if someone hired me, I was on top of a world. I’m telling you a king of the hill. And if they didn’t, oh man, my feelings would swing and I’d be in the gutter. You know? And if I went too long without having, you know, some, somebody to say, boy, you’re doing a really good job, Shane, you know, there’s some type of positive reinforcement from a client. I’d get nervous, I’d get anxious and I’d start asking myself like, should I even be in business for myself? Am I even, am I even really a coach? It was a total roller coaster ride.

Amy (12:55):
Which is what most owners ride all the time. And they come to manage that ride. Instead of eradicated.

Shane (13:04):
There is a better way, right?

Amy (13:06):
There is a much better way. Do you remember what the rest of that article said, Shane, it goes on to say that inspired owners bring more discretionary energy to their work every day. And as a result, they are 125% more productive than an owner who is merely satisfied. Okay. So stated differently. One inspired owner, Kim produce as much as two and a quarter satisfied owners.

Shane (13:42):
Good, great. Wow. Wow. Wow. I mean it’s like having to of yourself.

Amy (13:48):
Yes, yes. That is exactly what it is. And you know, this is, this is when I saw things start to turn for Magdalena is she started to implement these specific measurements that I gave her, these indicators and metrics. And she has really started to report a huge change in things. Right. I mean, you’ve watched her walk through this with me. Yeah, totally.

Shane (14:14):
You know, and, and being a part of those conversations, I’ve seen her get to the place where she’s engaging her ideal client, you know, she’s getting new opportunities to sell her services. And, and the great thing is all of that happened within a matter of days, right? We’re not talking weeks and months. This was a matter of days. Yeah?

Amy (14:34):
It, it was spectacular. And, and honestly, I think where I saw a lot of her shifting happened to be able to execute that, even the things that we’re talking about here today was whenever you said to her, you know, this is how you’re going to be able to execute what telling you. And this is why you’re not able to execute it. That coach angle to this business model is so valuable. You know, I, I, when I go back and I look at my history, you know, I didn’t lose my first business Shane and I didn’t stumble in the dark, so to speak as an owner because I didn’t know what to do, but there were some, uh, hurdles that I did not know how to get over. And it wasn’t until I myself hired a very capable executive coach like yourself. This was before I knew Shane that, um, things started to shift for me. This is why coaching is so valuable to me. And I am not a coach that Shane expertise, but the reality is that you helped her see the, the hurdle. And I helped her get over it.

Shane (15:43):
To me, that’s the beauty of, of this combination, right? So used to, you said before Amy it’s systems run the business, but people run the systems. It’s a combination of knowing what exactly needs to be done, but then having the ability and the capacity to actually do it. And I knew there were three KPIs that you gave Magdalena to measure that kind of put her on the right track, kind of set the new course for her. And I think it’d be great if you shared those three KPIs that you gave her, like right now,

Amy (16:16):
Clarify for all of us, the difference between a metric and a KPI. Okay. Because it’s a really interesting thing to understand because a lot of times owners are thrown at all of these metrics, exp, especially if you have outsourced to digital marketers or you have a, um, financial party, that’s at play in your business and they’re, they’re throwing you numbers and knowing what to look at and why they’re so important are really, really can make or break the business. I mean, let’s just be honest. So I want you to think of a metric like your weight. Okay. We’re not going to, we’re not going to come forward with how much we weight shame, but okay, good, good, good. The reality is, is that a, your weight is a metric. Okay. It is a static number in time. This is, this is the number that the scale says today.

Amy (17:16):
But if I lost 20 pounds, that 20 pound loss is the key performance indicator. Okay? So both numbers are used for measurement, but the difference between a raw score or a metric of say that when the scale says 130 and how many points that we lose, or how many pounds we lose to get to that desired outcome, that’s the performance that 20 pound loss tells me, did I eat less? Did I work out more?
I stop eating dessert every night. Did I drink more water? That tells me why the loss happened? Now, I want you to think of it this way, too. Um, have you heard in, in math that elementary math rule, a square is a rectangle, but a rectangle is not a square.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
I have heard that.

Amy (18:13):
Ok, this is exactly what a metric and a KPIs are. So a square fits the definition of a rectangle because it has four sides. However, a rectangle cannot then meet the definition of a square because to be a square, you must not only have those four sides, but the four sides must be congruent. So a KPI key performance indicator is a metric, but a metric is not a KPI. So when I’m talking to you about the KPIs to look at, I’m going to give you the three most important ones that Magdalena focused on that told her what was happening or what was not happening. Right? So the very first set of KPI numbers that I gave her was those productivity numbers now included in, there were the marketing metrics. Now one of the very important marketing metrics was the response rate. So when Magdalene has started to reach out to people through digital assets and have authentic conversations, we were measuring how many people were responding. And we were looking for a very specific measurement there. And once we hit that measurement, we don’t change anything. We keep it the way it is. The second metric under that KPI marketing indicator was conversions to a call. All right? So these two numbers are telling us, we are getting closer to return on investment. We are about to get a sale when these numbers are landing where they’re supposed to. Does that make sense?

Shane (19:54):
Yeah. So it’s, you know, people talk about, you know, Hey, I don’t know if I’m, if I’m actually profitable and my marketing spend well before you look at the outcome of dollars in dollars out, you’ve got to look at what’s driving the activity, that’s producing, whatever that result is. And this is, this is by definition of the marketing KPI, the two things to be watching to see if it’s producing correctly. So you can be profitable.

Amy (20:17):
That’s right. That’s exactly right now, the second thing, the second metric under that productivity key performance indicator that we had her measure was labor costs. So how long is it taking her herself to acquire this new client? Now, what that allowed us to do is to know when to employ automation and human touch. And the reality is, is that that is the number tells us when to hire, but it also tells us when to fire. It tells us when to automate and it tells us when to wait. That’s the reality. Now the very last metric under this production KPI was the sale, right? The, the most crucial metric is the return on investment or the conversion to a sale. Now, most people only want to look at the sale. Well, I’m making X amount of sales and I’ve got X amount of money in the bank. But the second KPI that we need to look at is gross margin. So you have your production KPI, which includes those marketing and sales and labor metrics. And then we’re looking at the gross margin. Now, there are a lot of other metrics

Shane (21:40):
Reflect back on those three major KPIs. You just hit. Yes, there are others, but yes.
And we’re going to cover those here on this podcast, but unless you’ve got these three working together, the others don’t matter. This is the foundation for everything else that you’re going to hear us unveil, you know, episode after episode, like this stuff right here, though, like this really matters.

Amy (22:03):
Yeah, it really does. And it really is, you know, and I saw this with Magdalena was it was like turning on a flashlight in a dark room. I mean, if you ever experienced that feeling it’s so it can be so like discombobulating, right?

Shane (22:20):
As your round is disoriented, speaking of flashlights and not knowing where you are and it being disorienting. I remember this one time where I was on a hunting trip one afternoon, very unfamiliar place. So the sun starts going down and I could not find my flashlight. And this was way before there were cell phones with flashlight. It’s like, I’m out there with a flip phone, man. It’s back in the 19 hundreds. So it starts to get dark. I could feel, you know, I’m starting to get anxious and I knew the general direction to get back to my truck, but I wasn’t a hundred percent sure of exactly which path to follow. So I start walking and I find myself hesitating about every 50 feet like elk. Goodness, am I, am I going the right way? Is this going to work out before long? You know, it’s like every step I’m questioning myself.

Shane (23:06):
And even though it’s getting cold, I’m starting to sweat. Right. I’m nervous as I can be. So I was like, okay, let me just stop one more time and check through my bag and just see if this light happens to be there. Right. And sure enough, I overlooked it somehow. And they was in there. So this was when I got really scared though, because I thought, okay, if I turn this light on and I don’t recognize where I am, well, then what am I going to do? Right. So at that moment, I’m thinking, I really don’t know where I am. And it was almost safer to be there than it was to turn that thing on and find out, right. So at least without the light, I could say, you know, Hey, I’m moving forward. Hopefully it’s the right direction. But once that turned that line on, it was going to be the point of no return, right? What am I going to see when I turn this light on? And how am I going to handle it if it’s not what I had hoped for.

Amy (24:01):
And that is such a great, sorry you had to go through that, but it’s a great, it is a great description for what we have seen happen with so many owners. And it, it, and for us personally, is that when you’re given this set of key performance indicators and you actually start measuring, what’s actually happening, suddenly you start to see what’s possible. And this is when fear sets in. I mean, I have found that most entrepreneurs, including myself, are not afraid of failure, but of success because when we see the numbers and know what the numbers are telling us, we can almost guarantee our success. And this is exactly what happened with Magdalena. So as we were coming out of that first conversation with her at the beginning of the, our, our episode today, uh, we quickly in the, in the next part of this consulting conversation that I was having with her, she immediately went to her fear and she starts to talk about her own personal fears that are bubbling up as she progresses through the dark world of business, holding this flashlight, this set of KPIs and Shane, you are brilliant at helping your clients. And even my clients really Inyo, collate the fear that she brings up during our consulting calls. So I want to, I want us to listen again to our conversation with her.

Magdalena (25:36):
Every time I question things, it’s because I get into a lot of fear and I know that about myself. So for me, it’s, you know, the moment that I started to question it, I asked myself a question, okay, if you would be moving back to corporate world, would you be doing this? Would you be making the decision from your higher self perspective? Is that your higher self speaking or is there because you are in a lot of fear right now in this moment, it’s just one day to day that you have, and, and let’s rearrange tomorrow, you know, let’s, let’s circle back to this and see if you still feel this way. But I have enough of self-awareness right now to know that I am in fear. I appreciate you speaking to that. Um, the part, the way I started this phone call, because, um, because that’s exactly where I am right now.

Magdalena (26:48):
I am, you know, I just paid some of the bills that were due and, you know, it increased the fear even more. Fortunately for me, I also have a husband who is in the same boat that I am, and, you know, together, we form a team that, you know, tomorrow he might be in fear and I might be, maybe we can do this and we can, you know, dominate this. And I have a lot of good things going for me. And I just, again, it’s a moment in time right now, where I am in a lot of fear and, and, and it’s okay. Um, I, at least I’m talking about, yes, well, and you’re not alone. Like a new grace says, look, I’m with you Magdalene. And you’re not alone fears of payment. And it is fear. You’re never going as an entrepreneur. You guys like the more money you make does it.

Magdalena (27:50):
There is no less fear. What happens is, is there something, um, I found this chart called the entrepreneurial dip, and I think it’s in the group in the file section, if not all posted again, but it is a natural cycle. There it is. Thank you. Shame. It’s a natural cycle. And this entrepreneurial dip never goes away. You get better at building a bridge right here at the deepest part where the point of maximum opportunity hits and you’re in desperation, panic, capitulation. You’re saying things like this just isn’t for me. What have I done? There can even be some despondency and depression. It’s here. I’m going to tell you that I learned to build a bridge. And so I don’t fly through that anymore, but it doesn’t mean that I don’t feel like the fear and the denial and the anxiety and the desperation. But at that point, I learned many years ago to build a bridge. And where that came from was from two places. Number one, once I got my first client, it changed a lot of this, a lot of this, this fear thing for me. And the second thing that changed for me, that, that I was able to build a bridge over was the metrics. The metrics became my bridge. They are the north star. They tell me if what I’m doing is working.

Amy (29:11):
Wow. I mean, this idea, of fear as an owner is just real. I mean, let’s just, let’s just be honest about it. So, Shane, how do you, you coach your own clients and owners to conquer fear.

Shane (29:26):
Such a powerful conversation between you and Magdalena right there. And, and what I’ve found, especially encouraging in that dialogue was how self-aware she was, right? Like she knew her fear and she knew how it was impacting her decisions. And I also think you hit the nail on the head. When you said that fear, isn’t something that just one day it was going to go away from it for an owner and they’ll never have to face it again. That’s just not going to happen. And you mentioned, you know, this idea of building a bridge and you’ve learned to build that bridge through the fear, whenever it strikes you.
And what I want to do Amy is, is give three ways that we can practice doing that same thing on a daily basis. Here’s the first thing we have to accept that we’re afraid. And this just goes totally against our nature, right?

Shane (30:15):
I mean, it goes against what everyone has always told us. Don’t be afraid. Oh, well, when’s the last time that actually worked out. Like you just told yourself, don’t be afraid. And then boom, it just went away. Right? It does not work like that. So listen, every entrepreneur that I know is afraid, they fear failing. They fear losing control. They fear letting their family down. They fear that they won’t be able to pay their bills. So listen, friend, you are not different. And there isn’t something wrong with you. If you are afraid, you are just like the rest of us in this entrepreneurial game. So except that being afraid is a normal part of the process of achieving success. Now, the second thing that I would encourage you to do is to reframe your fear. So think of, think of whatever it is that scaring you right now as an owner and identify every emotion that surrounds that one thing.

Shane (31:17):
So for you, maybe it’s worry. Maybe it’s doubt. Maybe it’s, maybe it’s overwhelmed, whatever words, describe your feelings. I want you to get them out on paper, where you can see them. So instead of seeing all those emotions that you’ve written out as negative, I want to encourage you to start seeing them for what they really are. They’re energy for you to gain courage. So Nelson Mandela said it this way, I’ve learned that courage was not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it, the brave man is not, he who does not feel afraid, but he who conquers that fear. So when we see those emotions as a signal to keep moving forward, instead of as a sign, that it’s time to stop. Well, man, that’s when you act courageously. And then the final thing I would encourage you to do is to imagine the worst case scenario, like really get it all out there.

Shane (32:12):
What is the worst case scenario you have? Have you got it? Now? I want you to release it, or you might be thinking, well, that’s easier said than done. How do I do that? I’m glad you ask the way I do it is by writing it out, like in as much detail as possible. Like, okay, what’s the worst case scenario. If my fear is realized, you see fear is the anticipation that something that hasn’t happened yet is going to happen. So riding out that worst case scenario, what it does for me is it gives me a chance to actually come face to face with it and decide exactly what it is I’m going to do. If it does happen. Well, now I can let it go. Instead of walking around, asking myself, oh no, what am I going to do? What am I going to do?

Shane (32:53):
If that happens, what will I do? I just go ahead and decide what I’m going to do. And then I can put that down. And so much of my anxiety goes away and it’s going to do that for you too. Because once you have a plan, you regain a sense of control. You’re prepared. And if it does happen, you no longer have to live in the unknown. You also don’t have to live in the future because it hasn’t actually happened yet. So you can stay present in today, which is the only place where you can take action on what’s going to drive the outcome that you really, really want.

Amy (33:29):
I mean, that whole idea of imagine the worst case scenario and let it go is so powerful. Shame.

Shane (33:38):
It’s therapeutic it really is, because you realize there’s so many things that you just make up. You’re like, okay, that really is not going to happen. But then the things that do have the potential, it’s like, okay, this one, you know, I just need to be prepared. Well, okay. Make a plan, you know, and it just, boy, now I can put that down because I’ve got control. If that does come about, okay, I’ll deal with it then. But today I got work to do you know.

Amy (34:00):
You and I could go on about this for hours, but we both need to get on with it. So let’s, let’s recap what we talked about. So if we’re going to be entrepreneurs, right, who are succeeding all the time and actually getting that desire of discretionary time or true wealth, where money is the tool that’s really driving, that we’re able to, to use for our own benefit, right? And, and the benefit of other people. Then we are going to have to follow these established set of KPIs like a north star. Now, look, these KPIs are determined by the only two things that matter in business, take everything that you’ve learned in everything that you’ve heard. And hear me when I say this, there are only two things that matter in business, in all the numbers we follow are around these two objectives. Number one, always acquiring new clients. Look at this. This is where 60 to 90% of new cashflow comes from.

Amy (35:07):
And what is the number one reason that businesses go out of business very quickly, cashflow this second objective that these numbers keep us following is helping those people get what they say they want most not what we think, but what they say. So these established key performance indicators and metrics allow us to set the north star and continually be, and always be helping these people get what they want the most. So if you want to know exactly how we do that, there’s going to be a resource that you can grab at www.dontbefooledpodcast.com. Now you’re going to find other resources from today’s episode there too. And also don’t forget Magdalena and her company that URL is www.event-strategies.com.

Shane (36:11):
And if you’ve yet to rate the podcast, Amy and I hope that you’ll do that. Same. If you happen to think it’s five star worthy and you leave a written review so that we know who you are, we’re going to be sure and mention you by name in an upcoming episode as a small way to say thanks. So if you want to rate and review the podcast, just visit, don’t be fooled.com and choose your favorite podcast platform.

Amy (36:33):
That’s all for this week. We can’t wait until next time.

Shane (36:41):
Don’t be fooled. Podcast is copyright by Ascend 1, LLC.

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